British people are not cannibals
There I was the other day, making another lesson for my BreakingNewsEnglish website and thinking I’d done another reasonable job. I uploaded the lesson and the very next morning received an amusing e-mail from one of my site’s visitors.
He was a little concerned about his students reading my news article and then asking him whether British people really did eat Indians (the people).
My lesson was on a recent protest against racism in Australia. It involved Australians visiting an Indian restaurant for lunch. My article said:
Australian expatriates all around the world also showed their support by having an Indian for lunch.
My site visitor wrote:
In American English, it sounds like someone is eating Indian people for their lunch. Did you mean ‘ate lunch with an Indian’ [person]?
Thinking about it logically, my visitor’s interpretation would seem correct. However that meaning (“…having an Indian for lunch”) sounds somewhat racist to my ears. I changed the article’s wording to reduce the chances of people thinking Brits took part in illegal eating practices.
Anyway, thinking about it a bit more, Brits can and do have more than an Indian for lunch. We can also have a Chinese or an Italian.
Curiously, I don’t think you would hear people in the UK saying: “I’m having a Thai for lunch” (Thai meal), but then I haven’t lived in the UK for 17 years. Neither would I expect to hear these:
“I’m having a Lebanese for lunch”
“I’m having a French for lunch”
“I’m having a Japanese for lunch”
“I’m having a Russian for lunch”
Why not?
I searched on the Internet but couldn’t find any answers. Did another bit of thinking about it logically and came up with this possible explanation:
Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and takeaways were the only major overseas restaurants in Britain in the several decades following WWII. Over the years, people dropped the word “meal” from the phrase and “have an Indian” entered the national way of talking about going to restaurants for lunch/dinner. Other international cuisine only came to Britain in the past few decades and so it hasn’t been ingrained in our culinary-talk deep enough yet for ellipsis to take its course and “meal” to be dropped. Of course, I could be wrong…
Other uses:
In Britain, people also say “order an Indian / Chinese / Italian” (which could get you in trouble in other parts of the world) and “go out for an Indian / Chinese / Italian”.
One more thought
Do people say “I’m having / going out for / ordering an American (meal)”?
Curry picture from (jswching@flickr.com).
Tags: American English, British English, cannibals, curry, nuances
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This post was mentioned on Twitter by ShellTerrell: British and American English difference http://bit.ly/9IWp9b via @seanbanville…
That’s very funny as in Canada, I would have taken the expression the same way as your other visitor.
The explanation you gave is insightful for me though. I remember hearing that Lily Allen song, “Chinese”, in which she refers to having a Chinese, and I wondered if it was just a weird turn-of-phrase for her lyrics. Now, it makes more sense.
Thanks for that.
Very interesting – in Britain I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone order American food but I have in other countries. Also, in Britain don’t people say that they are having Thai for lunch (with a zero article).
I’ll buy the ellipsis. French cuisine must have been with us longer, but not for the working classes, and not as takeaway. If you drive through the countryside every little village has a pub (or two), a post office and a Chinese or Indian takeaway (or both).
If you think about it, you can have a (full) English too.
Remind me of an excellent reversal-of-roles sketch on English TV a few years back “Going for an English” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdo79znnHl8
“What’s the blandest thing you have on the menu?”
And in answer to your questions, I think you are right and this only work with Chinese, Indian, Italian. French food must have been around a long time though, so I’m not sure why we don’t use that one.
I think with American, we equate American food with fast food hamburgers and nothing else, so we’d just say “Going out for a burger”. We’d also say going for a kebab rather than “a Turkish”. You can, I think, replace Going for an Indian with going for an curry. But you can’t replace Going for an Italian with going for a pizza (though you can say both, but it has a different meaning)
Interesting question
I always had a sneaking suspicion Brits were using English wrong.
Well, if America continues at its current rate of dominating global media, hopefully such anomalies will be stamped out.
Thank you Nick,
I have more than a sneaking suspicion Americans are using English incorrectly, particularly when it comes to adverbs
Sadly, you may well be right, Nick. It’s a pity so much of the fun stuff is disappearing.
Will it make teaching language easier if such nuance and irregularity disappear?
Will it come to this several decades hence – teachers teaching eat / eated / eated?
Thanks Andy
Going for a curry is one of my favourite things in life. I also like going for a kebab and the occasional pizza.
It seems the “going for a” + “name of food” pattern is limited to a small number of non-English takeaway items, but excludes English delicacies like fish and chips / pie, mash ‘n’ liquor / jellied eels.
Although having said that, can’t you go for a sandwich?
Adjectives, adverbs, they’re all the same to us Americans
I don’t think the nuance and irregularity of English will ever disappear. If anything it will get more complicated with all the different cultures speaking it. I’ve never bought into the idea that a language can be broken down into pure functionality like you hear now and then in some LF circles.
Course, it would make our lives a hell of a lot easier if things like spelling and irregular verbs were standardized in some way, but it’ll never happen.
Thanks Nick
I think many adjectives and adverbs are becoming interchangeable for many Brits too. I hear “You did good” and “I’m good” more and more from my compatriots. I use the latter one a lot
as long as you’re at it, can you please explain why there is no article before “hospital”? the only explanation i’ve received here in nz is that “there’s only one, so everyone knows which one you mean”, which is, of course, just about the definition for using the direct article!
ex-pat
Hi Kelly,
There can me articles before “hospital”:
“Quick! Get him to a hospital.” (Any hospital will do.)
“Quick! Get him to the hospital.” (There’s only one and speaker and listener know this.)
Both instances above refer to hospital as a building. Where there is no article is where hospital is used as an activity / event. “I’m going to hospital” places in our minds examinations, operations, stays, etc. Similar uses include “go to church” and “go to bed”.
More at http://www.writing.utoronto.ca/advice/english-as-a-second-language/definite-article (see the “Special uses of articles” section near the bottom of the page).
Hope this helps
Lovely post, Sean, and nice comments.
Just want to thank Andy for posting the brilliant ‘Going for an English’ sketch. I really think that sketch should be played as part of culture studies in every school – it says more about so-called ’soft’ racism than a thousand well-meaning cultural awareness lessons ever could.
Hi Sean! I’ve been using your website for my classes for a long time. I’m an English teacher in Brazil. Is it possible to listen to the exercises with “american” accent? Is it available in the website? Best regards
Lauren
Hi Lauren
Many people have asked the same. Much as I’d like to, I don’t have ready access to American speakers when I record my lessons. I work from my apartment. Just me and the family here. Perhaps one day in the future if my site takes off.
I have tried mailing people scripts and waiting for them to come back, but that never really fit with my work schedule.